Curse

elektra_lucia · Feb 27, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Hey,

I played in some r10 pug (pug says it all). And was kicked for this logic, lol... Also see EVERY sin doing it...

Assassins use blades of steel. Why for? Where is the logic in that?

They say to me WELL IT DOES 65 DAMAGE. No, it doesn't. It does 17 for each recharging attack, at most (and usually it's less) you have three recharging attacks. So 3 times 17 = 51. With an 8 second recharge.

Death blossom is a 2 second recharge, 47 damage (minimum).

So yes, you gain 4 extra damage, but can risk losing a lot (if all three attacks arn't recharging) PLUS death blossom is 2 second recharge and you can also do AOE. It'll still hit for +47 even if it does no AOE.

So why is it everyone uses blades of steel?

It seems kind of sad how someone sees someone do something, and everyone copies. Like sheep. Or perhaps I've missed something, perhaps there's a perfectly logical reason as to why you'd use blades of steel. However, it's +17 for attack, and not skill (then I'd understand it) so, maybe someone can explain? :O.

ss1986v2 · Feb 27, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWiki

Blades of Steel's recharge is included when calculating the total damage. That means with a high amount of Dagger mastery, the max damage can be reached with just 3 additional attack skills.

if you run BoS, your build will have enough attack skills recharging or you wouldnt run BoS.

more dmg > less dmg

the wiki is your friend...

FoxBat · Feb 27, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

They say to me WELL IT DOES 65 DAMAGE. No, it doesn't. It does 17 for each recharging attack, at most (and usually it's less) you have three recharging attacks. So 3 times 17 = 51.

BoS counts it's own recharge.

Saphatorael · Feb 27, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

BoS also counts itself as recharging, so it theoretically would deal 68 bonus damage.

Death Blossom's recharge isn't relevant, since you're using a dagger chain; BoS is also recharged by the time you use the next chain.

BoS is better for spiking one target, whereas Death Blossom has different uses, the most popular one being paired with Moebius Strike to have heavy pressure.

tomcruisejr · Feb 27, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

yea theyre right. coz after button mashing, Blades of Steel becomes this one sick mofo .

elektra_lucia · Feb 27, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Death Blossom's recharge isn't relevant, since you're using a dagger chain; BoS is also recharged by the time you use the next chain.

Wrong. Sometimes you don't get to pull off the two combos (aegis or hex removal). Black spider strike, and balck lotus strike are both leadings which people usually use. So in effect you have two combos. Sometimes you get to do one combo but not the other; therefore, with 12 recharge on each it's 6. So, blades of steel can be left out for 2 seconds. If you have only got to do one combo then blades of steel will generally do less than death blossom.

Quote:

BoS also counts itself as recharging, so it theoretically would deal 68 bonus damage.

I had no idea, no one explained that to me. And the skill says it does +17 for each recharging. You've already used the skill before the recharge, so that makes no sense for it to count itself; however, I understand you're probably right so that'd give me a reason to use it I guess.

Quote:

so it theoretically would deal 68 bonus damage.

65*

Quote:

BoS is better for spiking one target,

Yes if the one target is on it's own... Over all I still disagree, most teams ball up at some point or another, and the moment they do that (even if it's one person next to the other) blossom will still be more powerful. Not only that, but with AOE from it, it can also confuse the enemies infuser.

Quote:

yea theyre right. coz after button mashing, Blades of Steel becomes this one sick mofo .

I see that potentially if blades of steel counts itself, you get to pull off the two leading combos and no one in any match has been near their team, ever and your skills are ALWAYS recharging in sink with each other - then yes. It could do more damage.

Other than that, no. 47 from blossom + one other person near by, is 94 extra damage. Instead of the max you can get with BoS (65).

So even if it counts itself wouldn't make much sense to use, to me... For GVG though yes, it's more spread out and unlikely people will ball up so much. However, if you think on like broken tower in HA. People are often balling up or going near their team.

Quote:

the wiki is your friend...

To be fair I wasn't expecting a-net to put stupid grammatical errors in the information to do with the skill... It's like trying to find something you don't know is missing.

Quote:

BoS counts it's own recharge.

I do feel stupid after discovering that though. I should of tested XD.

Patccmoi · Feb 27, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I don't even see why BoS sins in popular HA builds would care about adjacent AOE damage anyway. Basically they have no pressure out of their spike, so even if they got someone to 50% by luck cause a bunch of DB hit him, who cares, they couldn't finish him off before their next spike anyway. And the way the SP build works, it's actually 1 combo every 20s and that's it. There's just nothing else the build does and it's pointless to actually try to do anything else cause you'd likely gimp yourself trying to be original.

BoS does 36 more damage (18 x 2) ignoring armor and this damage can matter when spiking a warrior or the like, so it's just better than DB for this particular build. DB would likely be better in nearly any other build though, but SP spiker is just mindless enough that nothing except big damage on your target in 1 combo every 20s matters at all.

elektra_lucia · Feb 27, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

There is usually ele's in the build doing AOE damage, or you might find a group of low targets. It can help finish a lot of people off (I've found this to be so).

Quote:

And the way the SP build works, it's actually 1 combo every 20s and that's it

Nah. You can combo from any hex, not just shadow prison. Sure you might only do a dedicated shadow prison spike every 20 seconds (because of the recharge), but you might decide to combo every twelve seconds without the use of shadow prison.

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There's just nothing else the build does and it's pointless to actually try to do anything else cause you'd likely gimp yourself trying to be original.

Disagree, got myself few hundred fame (which isn't too bad I guess) in a day from being original. I'm lucky if I get 100fame these days, from -not- being original.

I never mentioned SP in my first post by the way. But okey... Every sin is shadow prison right? xD.

Patccmoi · Feb 27, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

You said 'blades of steel assassins in HA'. I think it's fair to assume that a very very vast majority of those are SP-BoA sins. If you're not using SP, as i said DB is likely better in about any other build.

And if as an SP sin you're using other hexes to do your combo, then what you're gonna do, partial combo and then waste your SP recharge cause your attack skills aren't ready, etc.? Cause if you go and do BLS-DB 15s after your SP combo cause BLS is ready, well when SP is recharged you just won't have the skills to combo, so SP is kinda pointless. Again, as i said, if you're NOT using SP, then DB is very likely better (especially if you use something like Moebius, then it's not even comparable and Moebius-DB is incredibly powerful).

And ya, i'm sure you can gain a couple 100s fame from being original and using other sins builds (i use non-SP sins all the time, i hate being useless 15/20s), but what i mean is if you're doing a SP spike every 20s, which is what about every 'blades of steel assassins in HA' do, then BoS is better. I'm sure that a good team would do pretty much as good with DB though cause most of the time the combo overkills, but BoS is a more reliable kill against high health targets.

FoxBat · Feb 27, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Yes if the one target is on it's own... Over all I still disagree, most teams ball up at some point or another, and the moment they do that (even if it's one person next to the other) blossom will still be more powerful. Not only that, but with AOE from it, it can also confuse the enemies infuser.

Usually when you use a black whatever chain, your goal is to spike out a single target with it, not deal some moderate distributed pressure damage.

elektra_lucia · Feb 28, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

You said 'blades of steel assassins in HA'. I think it's fair to assume that a very very vast majority of those are SP-BoA sins. If you're not using SP, as i said DB is likely better in about any other build.

And if as an SP sin you're using other hexes to do your combo, then what you're gonna do, partial combo and then waste your SP recharge cause your attack skills aren't ready, etc.? Cause if you go and do BLS-DB 15s after your SP combo cause BLS is ready, well when SP is recharged you just won't have the skills to combo, so SP is kinda pointless. Again, as i said, if you're NOT using SP, then DB is very likely better (especially if you use something like Moebius, then it's not even comparable and Moebius-DB is incredibly powerful).

And ya, i'm sure you can gain a couple 100s fame from being original and using other sins builds (i use non-SP sins all the time, i hate being useless 15/20s), but what i mean is if you're doing a SP spike every 20s, which is what about every 'blades of steel assassins in HA' do, then BoS is better. I'm sure that a good team would do pretty much as good with DB though cause most of the time the combo overkills, but BoS is a more reliable kill against high health targets.

Good point(s) and true, most are SP.

[quote]sure that a good team would do pretty much as good with DB though cause most of the time the combo overkills

Quote:

Yep. I notice with the kill count maps, most of it is positioning what screws people over and not the 15 extra damage of one skill XD. I just like DB because people are stupid and ball up.

God Apprentice · Mar 08, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I switch between them cause I like them both, but meh now that SP is 10 energy you think people will stop running it?

Div · Mar 08, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Blades of steel assassins are so popular because it's a build that almost anyone can run and hope to kill other people with (if the other monks aren't paying attention for an entire 3 seconds). All it requires is for someone to press 1-2-3-4-5-6 in that order and then hopefully you see some +exp and +faction above your head. Using death blossom, if not in the "typical" shadow prison combo, requires much more skill and requires the user to actually know how to play an assassin correctly to not get killed playing it like a tank while getting death blossom off. The popularity has led to the belief that it is the best type of assassin in HA, even amongst higher ranked groups.

ayame ftw · Mar 08, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

the 10 energy extra will hurt warriors more then it does sin.
except when u want to use expose defences before u start the combo
shadow prism + expose + burst + black mantis = 10 +10 + 5 + 10 = 35 energy
with all energy armor a sin has 33 energy
so plus 5 energy daggers 38 energy

FoxBat · Mar 08, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

furious spear + flail = un-nerfed SP.

Blossom/mobious can be nice pressure, but that has limited use in HA.

Yanman.be · Mar 08, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Splint Weapon y'all!

NoPantsRepublic · Mar 26, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Splint Weapon y'all!

That's one reason I run BoS. Another is because BoA's are for taking down single targets; if you want AoE pressure, Eles or weapon rits are much better than an assassin that'll do 92 aoe damage every 15 seconds at best.

Riotgear · Mar 27, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

shadow prism + expose + burst + black mantis = 10 +10 + 5 + 10 = 35 energy
with all energy armor a sin has 33 energy

They use Black Lotus, not Mantis.